READY FLOWERS RELAY FLORIST GETS SUED Thread

Thanks Gordon,

I think from reading the law jagon that what Ready Flowers is charging and what the consumer belives they are getting for that price is different. Would you agree.

What were the grounds? Did somebody complain?  

Very interesting! MEMBERS should take note.

wow. nice work gordon

Thanks Gordon, for the update sounds very interesting. I still am a little unclear of your last statment. Did you order flowers through Ready Flowers and then realise?

Thanks for the update.

Bbee, it is sad to say that this deceitful practice is running rampant among our Australian Florist Industry. We have been warning florists of this for fifteen years from the day relay organisations commenced taking their members local orders from the general public and taking a hefty payment for themslves out of our local customers spend on flowers. The warning was it would get out of control which has been proven right. Now the florist is paying dearly for co-operating with these tactics to the detriment of our own businesses. EFlowersAlive has a program in place to rebuild the industry with honest trading florists. If you are one of  the REAL LIVE HONEST FLORISTS  we would love to have you on our database.  EFlowersAlive have constructed a website  www.eflora.net.au for sole purpose of promoting the REAL LIVE LOCAL FLORIST and many resources are included in our SNAPPY FLORIST MANAGEMENT PROGRAM.
CO-OPERATION V's COMPETITION.  CO-OPERATION ALWAYS WINS.             Cheers...........EFlowersAlive..........Ron        flowers800@optusnet.com.au

Thanks for looking into these matters Gordon. Very interesting to see.

I don't need to disclose anything jaseymour as there is nothing to disclose. 

Also, I do not operate Penny's Flowers, I am employed part time by Penny's Flowers and Penny's Flowers plays absolutely no part in the publishing of my Fair Trading site. 

As if I would be doing the Fair Trading site while directly or indirectly involved with these scam merchant relay services. Penny's Flowers does not accept relay orders, nor does it relay orders to other florists with the exception of it providing Penny's Flowers product orders to one florist in Hobart. This is because Penny's Flower's used to be based in Hobart and this is more fully explained at sub-paragraph 9.1(b) of my Statement of Claim published on my Fair Trading website.

I did discover Direct2florist.com Flower Ordering Service a couple of weeks ago that is a stark and refreshing exception to the trend of the scam merchants.

Penny's Flowers has since become a member of Direct2florist.com which is commended for its transparency and honesty in publishing to consumers its very reasonable fee for service. 

I believe that the honesty and ethics of the Direct2florist.com business model must be the way of the future.

dear gordonc by the looks of things both you and the shop that have employed you have both been taken in by the company everyone calls direct2floristif you read there terms and conditions Direct2florist Terms & Conditions for Floristspart 2. The only payment to Direct2florist is a transmission charge shown as a separate item on the customers order. This is an amount, in addition to that requested by the florist for flowers and delivery, representing the costs of cashing and authorising card payments, plus advertising and operating costs.then you will see that direct2florist are a relay company just like everyone else appart from they charge the customer instead of the florists and unless you do take the time to read the small print then no one just like yourself will belive they really are a relay company

thank you for your reply Fly2hi but surly if you were not a relay company as you claim there would be no charge at all weather it is to the consumer or the florist and most of the florists i know in Australia the belong to your company are not aware of any consumer paying any charge at all they almost compare you to yell could you explain were the confusion is for the florists that are all ready with you?

The definition of a relay means, when an item, a message, a baton or an order for flowers passes from one person to another or company to a person, or company to company is enacted it is being relayed. It can be on an honour basis (no payment envolved) or a fee is paid for the service. The fact that a fee is being paid makes the person or persons responsible as  a LEGAL RELAY ORGANISATION.
We go back to when Relay Organisations were only 60 years old in the 1960's when we entered the industry.Relays were created on an honour system among REAL LIVE INDEPENDENT FLORISTS.The reliable big name Relays were paid a fee by the customer. for every order transfer. The fee was held by the florist. The RELAY claimed the fee when the florists made their claim for credit/debit at the end of the month. when the relay balanced and paid the florist.  Order details would be direct from the customer to the sending florist and conveyed to the executing florist by phone, mail or cable. The order was never interferred with by the relay. The sending florist would receive 20%, the executing florist 80% of the flower value. the relay the designated relay fee. Relays were a non-profit organisation.
As from about 15 years back in Australia, relays have not been able to be trusted in that they began stealing their own members local customers by becoming  their own sending member in opposition to their florist membership. Why would florist or customer want to be loyal to such a low act ?
With the advent of internet shopping it is has come to the point where florists have lost faith in the once perfect relay organisations. This deceitful practice has rolled out into the general public arena and is taking its toll on the REAL HONEST LIVE FLORISTS who have kept this industry alive and have been chastised and treated like dumb animals. If Direct2florist is upset by the comment "taken in by the company" then please think of the thousands of florists who have lost their businesses and their livlihood by trusting in the RELAY INDUSTRY. They are not FLORISTS, they do not belong the Flower industry but try to "SELL" product they cannot possibly produced and are now self imposed on our fine passionate and dedicated florists. (most of them are). In fact the Relay System of Flowers is now OBSOLETE. The internet has taken their place and is the reason why EFlowersAlive has developed a simple program, ever so simple program to replace deceit with respect and integrity in the local independent florist shop. The same technology used by the relays will be placed in the hands of every member to DIRECT (the true meaning of the word) the customer DIRECT to the florist. DEFINITELY NO MIDDLEMAN to represent them. The florist has never asked any agent to represent them. Another deceitful practice thrust upon them. Hence we have the motto FLOWERS DIRECT .....THE ORIGINAL WAY....THE DIRECT WAY.....THE PERFECT WAY.......THE ONLY WAY........THE CORRECT WAY......THE HONEST WAY
We ask the question in the light of the appalling way the florist has been promoted, "IS THERE ANY OTHER WAY?  Please enlighten us if there is another way.
Stop wasteing your hard earned profits on court cases and putting the cases out in front of your customers, for it is damaging to the whole industry.
The florists ugliest competition are these self imposed non florists. The only sensible and successful way is for the Florist to rejoin the FAMILY CIRCLE by 
CO-OPERATING with one another and giving these non-florists the greatest competition they could ever imagine. Florists, it is your responsibility and only yours. Take action now. The resoures and tools are yours by rejoining the family circle, so, STOP! LISTEN TO THE FLOWERS!   LETS UNITE!  WE NEED CUSTOMERS THAT WE CAN SATISFY WITH OUR TALENTS, NOT JUST ONE OR TWO CUSTOMERS (ordergatherers) dictating as to what we should and should not to please them.
Keep smiling with the flowers...they need you....and so do your customers......................Cheers EFlowersAlive The WISE OLD OWL......Ron

Want to rebuild your local personal customer database??                www.eflora.net.au          flowers800@optusnet.com.au    We are on your side!!!! The florist that is!!

War of the RosesIndependent local florists have been forced into intense competition with Internet suppliersBy Bryan Keogh (~909 Words)   Bkeogh4@bloomberg.netFor most of his 35-year career as a florist, Mark Smith was perfectly content cutting and arranging roses, assembling gift baskets of fruits and flowers, and artfully crafting bouquets for special occasions. But that changed in recent years as the Midland, Michigan-based florist—working out of the same shop his grandfather opened in 1947—witnessed growing consumer complaints about overpriced yet shoddy flowers, deceptive marketing practices by fictitious florists, and dwindling numbers of professionals in the industry.To spotlight the problems, Smith and others began policing the industry, by setting up websites, like floristdetective.com, that ferret out deceptive practices.“We are career florists who care about the integrity of the industry,” Smith said. “It is our future, and the future of flowers delivered by local florists depends on remaining honest and reliable.”
A modern-day War of the Roses is roiling the $20 billion floriculture industry. It pits an improbable army of small local florists against national “order-gatherers,” who have increasingly inserted themselves into the mix, and large-scale brokers, who over the past two decades have turned from not-for-profit, florist-led networks into profitable international companies that rely increasingly on the Web to fill orders for local companies and carve out cuts to fill their own coffers.
Irked by high fees, last-minute orders, and on occasion, outright fraud, small florists have set up websites to highlight broker and order-gatherer misdeeds, complained to the Federal Trade Commission, and established new networking systems to link florists in different parts of the country while ensuring the florists themselves keep all the profits. And lawsuits in California and Tennessee have won settlements against out-of-state online firms that allegedly marketed their flowers deceptively, by pretending to be local, for example. At least three other states are pursuing similar cases.National order-gatherers who misrepresent themselves as local florists is the “biggest problem frustrating the industry,” says Jennifer Sparks, a spokeswoman for the Society of American Florists. She said 18 states have laws on the books making it a crime for a company to advertise itself as a local business when it’s not.But the online dealers—who typically aren’t florists—say they’re just trying to give customers the best deals. The brokers argue that by forwarding orders from all over the world, they are passing florists new business. Even some florists argue that the complaints are just sour grapes from those unable to adapt to the new uber-competitive marketplace.“The structure that is in place is a very reasonable one,” says Charles Kremp, who has spent the last half-century at his eponymous flower shop in Philadelphia. He has also been a leading voice in the floral industry, as president of the Society of American Florists in the mid-1990s. “For the best florists,” he says, “it’s very easy to fill these orders in a profitable way.”Wire services like FTD, Telaflora, and Florists Interlink arose from the need for independent florists to help local customers place orders in other parts of the country. Florists’ Telegraph Delivery was the first in 1910, when 15 retailers created a member-owned service through which they agreed to pass along orders for out-of-town deliveries. The proceeds would be split three ways: 20 percent for the order-taker, 73 percent for the florist, and 7 percent for the wire service.
But in the past decade or so, the Internet’s growth has made it easier for non-florists to enter the business, by operating dazzling web sites with colorful bouquets of flowers, and passing orders on to wire services like FTD, owned by the public company FTD Group Inc. The order gatherers typically charge processing fees and take a 20 percent cut. Florists like Smith say FTD and other wire services are affiliated with the order gatherers and turn a blind eye to fraudulent practices and deceptive advertising for the sake of profits. And the wires have put themselves in direct competition with florist members by becoming major Web retailers. That lets them collect 27 percent of the price, and inflates a typical order by 15 to 20 percent.Responding to consumer and florist complaints, Hankins and his organization targeted Southampton, Pennsylvania-based Teleflorist Inc., which allegedly had been advertising itself as a local business in dozens of cities across Tennessee, and listing local telephone numbers. Hankins’s group convinced the attorney general to sue the firm, resulting in a $29,000 settlement, which included a $40 rebate for all 413 Tennesseans who placed orders with Teleflorist. Kremp says the Society of American Florists is working on similar efforts elsewhere, and states like Pennsylvania have passed measures that would, as in Tennessee, make it illegal for a business to misrepresent itself as a local proprietor.But Kremp also argues what the floral industry really needs is a national marketing effort along the lines of the dairy industry’s successful “Got milk?” campaign. He’s spearheading such an effort on behalf of wholesalers, retailers and growers in concert with the U.S. Department of Agriculture.“Today the margins have been squeezed so thin … and businesses are struggling much more than they were ten years ago,” he says. “If our industry doesn’t get out there and explain the reasons people like to buy flowers, [consumers are] going to be buying cell phones” and other products on special occasions like Mothers Day.“Most local florists want to play with the flowers, not websites,” explained Dottie Harrigan, a floral consultant in Upper Marlboro, Maryland. “Most of them are artists.”

We worked on this forum up to midnight last night, looking for the above in our files on the the florist industry.This was a report written 10 years ago in USA when the 'rot set in' and it was called "War of the Roses" It is a must be read by all florists.  Florists and Relays had plenty of warning as to the complications involved and now this writting applies to Australia in no uncertain terms. Please read the last couple of sentences. These we believe to be true of the Australian florist. We have seen communication/relay/ordergatherers/scam/non-florists/ and (a name we cannot print) industry grow like wild fire throughout Australia and the world. In UK, it was called the "Blood on the Carpet".
 We will not be wasteing any more time and money on this subject as it is making a bad situation, worse. EFlowersAlive has been developed by an honest real live independent florist of 40 years, a supportive wife of 50 years and a loyal staff member of 20 years and is dedicated to bringing "peace of mind" to people less fortunate than us, thru the POWER OF THE FLOWER. We never thought we would see the day when florists would be dragged into the gutter by these deceitful practises. So, that's it from us on this subject because we are NOT ONE OF THEM. WE ARE ONE THE HONEST REAL LIVE FLORISTS, and WE NEED YOU TO LET US KNOW ON WHICH SIDE OF THE FENCE YOU ARE. The public are not sure who you are, so help us; to help you; to help them; to help you.
If you are capable and intelligent to take a local order by whatever means then www.eflora.net.au  and the SNAPPY PROGRAM will be a tremendous asset to your success. We do not require you to sign up until you are satisfied it is for you. Please register so we know there are some REAL LIVE HONEST FLORISTS left in Australia. It costs nothing to register except a few minutes to fil in the application form and email it to us. go to the website or email to     flowers800@optusnet.com.au ..........   cheers    EFlowersAlive.......The WISE OLD OWL..........Ron

i am curious to know what would happen to all relay networks if all of us florists got together for one day (gee, mothers day is coming up...)and did not accept or send any flowers through a network or relay as a protest until all relay companies are legally obliged to disclose all fee associated to the general public  

It really isn't that hard to get on the yellowpages website or google for goodness sakes to find a florist in the area that your customer needs flowers sent, pick up the phone and deal direct.... otherwise it all just seems like a bit of a drawn out belly ache to me, and if not a bit nit-picky  :-)  remove the demand i say, and perhaps it might make more of an impact. 

Studiorosa, Is there a problem with the website www.eflora.net.au  which has been promoted in this forum which does exactly what you are proposing. Example....  You need to send flowers to 120 Goodfellows Road Kallangur Qld 4503. Please test and we are open to any suggestions for improvement.  We need florists to IDENTIFY THEMSELVES to complete building the site. It has been set up entirely free by florists of 40 years experience. We have been asking for REAL LIVE HONEST FLORISTS to register their studio so the public can go DIRECTLY to the closest florist to the point of delivery, Every order becomes a local order and you receive 100% payment in the bank before delivery. It costs absolutely NOTHING to register.
Are you a member of a relay and have you calculated the cost of BUYING YOUR CUSTOMERS ORDER from them?. EflowersAlive is a Group of REAL LIVE HONEST FLORISTS OF AUSTRALIA and if you declare yourself as such you will be eligible to become a MEMBER of the SNAPPY FLORIST MANAGEMENT PROGRAM which puts you into 100% total control of your customers (your most valuable assett), and the everyday operation of your studio. Many other resources will be made available to you to the benefit of your business and customers.
Snappy has been in operation now for 7 years and we have survived the onslaught of these NON-FLORIST organistions and in the symbolic nature of flowers in hononesty and respect for our colleagues we wish to share it with you.
If you do not know how to calculate the cost of a customer, don't be embrassed to ask. It is the hidden costs that will shock you! You can email us privately flowers800@optusnet.com.au
We need you to help us, to help you, the help the customer, to help you. In other words, CO-OPERATION.  
We are one of you, a florist trying to make a honest living. We need to restore the integrity of the florist.     Hoping to hear your comments. Cheers from the WISE OLD OWL at EFlowersAlive.......Ron

To all florists, it is not just a simple matter of declaring the fees to the general public. Have you checked your relay account lately, because you have been targeted as poor business managers. It is a well known fact that we have some of the best florists in the world but not very good on the management side of the business. Sad to say, these once perfect relay organisations were a blessing the the florist but are now our worst enemy. We were trained by Oil Company when we first went into business and they were tough. Last year to come up with the latest, two members of staff obtained CertIV Small Business Management
When we did our assessments on our Florist Industry the comments were (you poor buggers) to put up with those sorts of tatics. ie relays
It was hammered into us it is not so much the costings on your products, but the shift is to the cost of a CUSTOMER/ORDER that is eroding your profits. This includes internet, yellow pages, adverts in general,etc.
To our colleagues our greatest cost and competitor is the once honest relays turned internet ordergatherers.
Taking advice from our training in the course we have had a audit of an account of a relay florist for the last 12 months. Figures were calculated direct from the relays invoices and statements and the florists bank statements for the direct payments revealed from the invoiced value of the order to be filled 65% was paid to the florist
Order value    100%
Florist paid on invoice 65%
Over the 12 month period and calculating all the hidden fees collected by the relay including subs, relay fees etc  this florist was paid 53% of what the customer was charged.
The ORDERGATHERER received 47 %      All of these figures include Flowers, Delivery and GST and calculated direct from the accounts used for taxation.
The cost of this ORDER/CUSTOMER was $47.00 for a $100.00 order received and NO CONTACT WITH THE CUSTOMER
Is there a florist that would like to recheck their relay account as we would dearly love to be corrected. This florist is shocked, saddened and ashamed of the efforts and money spent on promoting these organisations over the years. Another reason why REAL LIVE HONEST FLORISTS MUST UNITE and CO-OPERATE.
EFlowersAlive are NOT out to SELL YOU ANYTHING. If you are concerned about paying your way as honest traders in these uncertain economic times then now is the time to reduce your overheads. The 47% customer cost must be the first to be adjusted. This absurd figure spells out total destruction of the industry.
Be WISE to LOOK< BE WISE to SEE what you look at, BE WISE to UNDERSTAND what you see, BE WISE to LEARN from what you understand But to ACT ,(this little word ACT brings BIG RESULTS) on what you learn is the WISEST thing you ever do in life.  Stop and listen to the flowers, they will always win the day.
Cheers................EFlowersAlive..............Ron